The Origin of the Sherman Center

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Liam [00:00:08] Hello, welcome back to the ShermCast, season ten, episode four. Today we have the pleasure of interviewing the very first director of the Sherman Center with Shashi Murthy. And today we're going to be delving into the realm of entrepreneurship. We're going to see exactly what it takes to go all in on entrepreneurship and how exactly he did that with his process for himself. So if you're a student entrepreneur out there looking to see how this process works, like make sure to stay tuned for today's episode. Also, we're going to be looking more at the history of the Sherman Center itself and exactly see the process of it was like from the very beginning days of the Sherman Center. We're going to find exactly what led to the process of the venture co-op program, student led programs, courses at the Sherman Center, and so much more. So we have a jam packed episode for you all today, so let's just get straight into the interview. 

Liam [00:00:57] Hello! Today we have the pleasure of interviewing Shashi Murthy, an entrepreneur in the cell and gene therapy space and co-founder of Nanite. Before this, he was a professor at Northeastern and was the founding director of the Sherman Center here at Northeastern and accomplished many things during his time as the Founding Director. How are you doing today, Doctor Murthy? 

Shashi [00:01:16] I'm doing fine. Thanks Liam and Andrew. Hope you guys are doing good too. 

Andrew [00:01:20] So before we get into your venture and your various roles, can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? 

Shashi [00:01:26] Yeah, sure. So I got my bachelor's degree in chemical engineering many years ago and then have a PhD in polymer science. I did a couple of years of a postdoc Mass General, and then joined the Northeastern faculty as an assistant professor of chemical engineering in 2005, and was promoted to associate professor in 2011. In 2012, I was acting chair of the Chemical Engineering department, and beginning in 2013, I became the founding director of the Sherman Center. But in addition to that, separately, I ran my research lab the whole time I was at Northeastern, was promoted to full professor in 2015, and in addition to the work at the Sherman Center, developed technologies in the area of biomaterials robotic systems and spun out two companies from my lab. And I was at Northeastern until 2019. 

Liam [00:02:25] Fascinating story. So let's go more to your Founding Director role at the Sherman Center. So can you tell the audience why you chose to end up partaking in this position, and what exactly you did as the Founding Director of the Sherman Center? 

Shashi [00:02:38] Yeah, sure. So in 2013 or so, the university was in discussions with the Sherman family to create an entrepreneurship education center within the College of Engineering. And you know that there was a need for somebody who could basically stand up this operation from scratch. And so at the time, I had been a, department chair of chemical engineering, as I had just told you a minute ago. But then I also started my first company in 2012 to commercialize technologies embedded in my lab. So this is a kind of an unusual combination of an academic, an administrator, as well as an entrepreneur. And I guess I was in the sweet spot of somebody who could do the things that were needed to create the center as an administrative entity, as an educational entity, but then could also understand its mission from the entrepreneurial side. And so, you know that the, College of Engineering essentially pitched the opportunity to me and it just seemed like, a very compelling opportunity to do something new as well as, you know, make a real difference to large numbers of students at Northeastern. 

Andrew [00:03:52] Since you talked about this and how you kind of founded the Sherman Center, can you tell the audience what the process of designing the Sherman Center and what, like, programs was like? 

Shashi [00:04:03] Yeah. So if you can imagine it, there was literally nothing. At the beginning, there was it was just an idea. I mean, just not unlike, you know, a startup. You know, the, the Sherman family Michael and Ann Sherman and a lot of, you know, enthusiasm for being able to, generate and sustain the spirit of entrepreneurship and product design within the College of Engineering. But, you know, like, there wasn't really anything else at that point, besides that, besides the idea, if you think about it, you know, we have a really good college of engineering at Northeastern, which does a great job in educating students and fundamentals of engineering. And at the later stages, different forms of design, as well as all sorts of experiences with co-op. And then, of course, we have the D'Amore McKim school, which does a great job in educating students in the fundamentals business. But when you think about what technology entrepreneurship is, it involves products and process of designing products is something that is, you know, draws both from the fundamentals of engineering and fundamentals of business, but also has several other dimensions. I had gone through the process of learning about this as I formed my first company, and so I had some kind of an idea of the of the of the things, the building blocks that were needed for the center. But, you know, literally it was just like, you know, essentially a budget code and, you know, hey, go off and do this, and we'll figure it out as we go. It was very exciting, actually. You know, the fact that there was nothing there. And so it was just me and actually a work study student that, began from my office in the Snell Engineering building, you know, and so. Well, how do we do this? How do we begin? And and we started with courses. We started with, student programing as we'll talk about. And of course, ultimately, added a number of other programs as well. 

Liam [00:06:10] Again, that seems like just a lot of work went into the initial spot of like trying to develop all these programs. And you briefly mentioned the product development stage and helping students with their ideas and ventures. So let's talk more about that further. So we currently at this Sherman Center have the concept of the venture co-op program, which is basically where students could work on their startup ideas and their ventures over the course of a semester as part of the co-op. But you were the one that originally helped come up with this concept for the Sherman Center. So can you tell the audience how you necessarily thought of this concept, and why you saw a need for the students to work on their ventures as part of a co-op? 

Shashi [00:06:45] Yeah, happy to do that. However, I should, start by saying that the original concept came not from me, but from the Sherman family themselves, you know? And again, you know, a lot of credit to them to have this vision not only for the center as a whole, but also for specific programs. So, yeah, I mean, I can't remember exactly when it was, but, you know, there was, Michael and Ann I've always been engaged with the center. And at one point we had the conversation about, hey, we have a lot of students going through the the center. There's a vibrant entrepreneurial community here, and we have co-op that's part of the the Northeastern experience. Is there a way to more directly support the students and somehow utilize co-op as a mechanism? And so, I mean, it made a lot of sense. And we'd also come across, several students who had essentially told us, look, we want to I want to work on this idea, but there's there's somehow no time to do it. You know, there during the semester or if they were doing traditional co-ops. And so, you know, the question was, okay, well, how do we create time and space, for students to work on their startup ideas? And, you know, the natural progression of that idea was, well, let's find a way to enable students to work on their venture as a co-op. And that's really how it all began. 

Andrew [00:08:15] Yeah, we've all had the chance to interview a couple of other people that took the opportunity that the Sherman Center gave as a venture co-op, and I can say that talking to them, it made it like I made a huge impact to these people because they didn't want to go the traditional route of working in some company, but they wanted to work on their own thing as a co-op, and I found that was really helpful for them and it was really impactful. But moving on, we were wondering about, as the director of the Sherman Center, you had many student led workshops as part of the Sherman Center and student led programs. And these things are still a huge part of the Sherman Center today. So would like to know what these programs were like and why having student loan programs was such an important concept back then. 

Shashi [00:09:01] Yeah. And, it's a great question. And here again, you know, of course, there was nothing at the beginning. And, you know, one of the ideas or, thoughts that I had in the beginning was let's not create the center and its programs in a top down manner. Let's really try to understand, actually kind of like an entrepreneur, what the stakeholders would like to have, customers, if you will, would like to have and then start from there. You know, to the credit of Northeastern students, there has never been a shortage of feedback, across all of the university's programs, academic and otherwise. And that's really a wonderful thing. And so, you know, it didn't take a lot of effort to draw this kind of feedback from the student body, the College of Engineering. And we had actually several students who said, hey, we should do this. We should do that. You know, a workshop on Arduino, for example, was like the very first thing. And here, credit goes to a student named Matt Bosca, who approached me and said, hey, we should do this. And, you know, I'm willing to lead the workshop. And so we had, a few conversations, and Matt had essentially all of the building blocks already assembled in his mind, and we just went for it. And and that was the beginning, of the student workshops. It was great to have something like this in the realm of prototyping. This is, again, a gap that existed for a students to, you know, have a skill that's essential in prototyping but no place to go learn this really quick outside the context of a formal course, or an existing student group. You know, we there just wasn't anything like that at the time. So why not just spend an evening, for example, a couple of hours meeting with, fellow students, learning about Arduino, in this case, and then go apply it somewhere. And, and that was the beginning. And gradually over time, this organically grew into other areas of prototyping. And it was like a wonderful thing to see. It was completely student led. 

Liam [00:11:12] Yeah, it's great to hear all these opportunities that the students have been having with Venture Co-op Program, these student led programs, courses, etc. but we are about we are in our current ten year anniversary for the Sherman Center this semester. So we were just curious, what were some of the notable stories or events that happened at the early days of the Sherman Center, if you have any to share for the audience? 

Shashi [00:11:33] Well, yeah. So I mean, as with doing anything for the first time, you you sort of run some experiments and you have ideas and you test them out and some ideas stick and some don't. You know, we had a speaker series and, you know, we we drew speakers from sort of all over the place. And, you know, at times there just wasn't a whole lot of uptake. And, you know, we always wondered why that was. It's a it depends on a variety of things. Same thing with workshops. We tried a huge number of a variety of workshops. Some stuck, some didn't. And I think that was the sort of the spirit of things. The courses that that we have at the center today all began under the umbrella of, of a sort of an exploratory, optional elective. There wasn't a whole lot of structure there. And so we were sort of iterating everything as we went along. The other thing to add is that the center had no physical space, so it was sort of this amorphous entity that didn't have physical space. And, you know, that was it was always it's almost funny when you think about it now. But, that was a real limitation. So how do you how do you do anything when you don't have a physical home? And you know that that kind of thing takes time. You know, Northeastern, like most college campuses, you know, you can't just like create a space with a snap from your fingers. You have to think about it. You have to plan it out. And more often than not, when you're starting it out, you have to find a way to make it work with existing space. And the College of Engineering was, very nimble and and getting that set up in very short order. You know, back in, you know, ten years ago at this point, and it was small as a lot of, you know, but it it was, it was effective. And, you know, again, credit to the students here who turned it into a home and the hub of all the programs and activities. And, you know, it didn't take much. It's like you just need a little, a little, a small nucleation point. And then the people, the community will then take it from there. And so, yeah, that's, that's what stands out of my mind. Of course, you know, from there it just sort of grew and grew and grew in terms of the activities, the programs, as well as the physical space. 

Andrew [00:13:51] It's great to hear that the Sherman Center was able to really flourish like that over time. I was wondering the maybe if your experience with the Sherman Center shaped, if anything, your current experiences right now with Nanite and if that if any of that kind of influenced your ideas for Nanite and how you wanted to develop? 

Shashi [00:14:11] Yeah. Of course. So before Nanite, there was another company called Flask Works, whose life cycle kind of overlapped the life cycle of the Sherman Center somewhat closely in the beginning. So, I wanted to, you know, having launched my first company, I want to sort of built it out. The story with the first company was there was new technology invented in my research lab in the Department of Chemical Engineering, Northeastern, that required a certain amount of time and money. Yeah, that that's that's normal. But now when we went to turn that innovation into a product, we had to spend just as much time, just as much money, productizing the original academic innovation. And so just as the Sherman Center was beginning to take shape, I was educating myself about this question of, well, how can we possibly conflate the process of technology product development and conflate the the process of creating original engineering innovations and product creation and product development? And so that's, you know, sort of as I was thinking about the courses that are currently offered, the Sherman Center, I was also educating myself about this conflation process, you know, combining, original technology development with product development. And by the way, also getting, customer insight, along the way. And so this was the sort of the genesis of Flask Works which I worked on as I was building the Sherman Center. Flask Works designed technologies to automate the manufacturing of personalized cancer therapies, you know, was launched and was officially incorporated in 2016 or so and was acquired by one of its customers in 2020. Was it was a journey that, I went along just as, sort of the one side of my professional life was devoted to building the Sherman Center. The other side was devoted to building Flask Works. And of course I was doing other research as well at the time, but it was it was very helpful. So the Flask Works as a as a company, and me as a founder went through the REV program at the Sherman Center. We had a mentor. And so it was sort of a firsthand experience benefiting from the center's offerings. And, you know, collectively, all of this, informed my own development and what I currently do at Nanite. Incidentally, Nanite has a has a connection to Northeastern in the form of my co-founder, Sean Callahan, who was a former PhD student of mine and who was the co-founder of our first company, Quad Technologies. 

Liam [00:16:51] Again, you mentioned REV previously, and REV we also interviewed them earlier this semester. They're providing a great community for the entrepreneurs and helping them for product development as well. So you mentioned briefly balancing the Sherman Center, working there and then with your entrepreneurial ventures as well. So how is that process like trying to balance both things at once, and how were you able to do that? 

Shashi [00:17:11] Most professors, in the College of Engineering at Northeastern, have their own research programs in addition to their teaching responsibilities. So it was somewhat similar to that in the sense that, you know, my educational work, and the college was focused on the Sherman Center. And my research, gradually oriented itself toward developing technologies that could be commercialized. So, I mean, you could think of it as two very different spheres of activity, but it's not that unusual, for professors to have that kind of basically day to day. 

Liam [00:17:50] Again, months have been pretty fascinating. So you specifically mentioned Nanite. So what was the process, you mentioned customer research as well early on. So how did you figure that Nanite was really solving a need for people and with something that could truly be a successful venture? 

Shashi [00:18:04] Yeah. So my the first two companies, Quad Technologies as well as Flask Works, operated in the area of cell and gene therapy. So these are new therapies, for a range of diseases that are based on either manipulating a patient's own cells or designing therapeutic molecules like mRNA, to treat diseases in a different way. You know, these companies, Quad and Flask works, provided they didn't develop the actual medicines, but they provided technologies crucial to their manufacturing. In developing these companies, my co-founder, Sean Challahan and, and I became very familiar with the needs and the overall direction of the field and identified a need, that not enough people were paying it, paying attention to and where, huge opportunities lie. And this is in the delivery of advanced therapies based on molecules like mRNA. So the action in this field is now shifting toward not only being able to, direct or use these treatments. So by the way, the Covid vaccine, is is an example of this, you know, where the Covid spike protein is produced by the mRNA that's injected into muscle? The action in this field has now shifted to being able to deliver these molecules to very specific locations in the body, specific organs, and potentially even specific cell types within the organs. And that requires delivery technologies, you know, encapsulation of these molecules by larger molecules that that doesn't exist. And so, it was by virtue of our work in the cell gene therapy field that Sean and I, identified this need. And it was based on our entrepreneurial experience. Building Quad and Flask works, individually that, we had the skills necessary to propose solutions and develop them. Incidentally, Sean Callahan was, the instructor of the very first, Sherman Center. So this is like a a little bit of worlds colliding, if you will. 

Andrew [00:20:26] Earlier we talked about, I guess, juggling responsibilities and trying to keep track of all of those. I guess one thing that really stood out was your story about how you gave up a tenured teaching position in order to pursue your venture. So can you go more? Could you go more into that about the audience, about how you felt about that and maybe what was what the process was like and you why you chose to make that decision? 

Shashi [00:20:51] Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I get asked that, very often. It's a pretty unusual thing, by the way, for, you know, someone, I guess, who's a sort of a tenured full professor to just completely give that up and go off and do a startup. I would, you know, sort of framed that as, you know, it had been my life goal to be a professor. I decided to be a chemical engineer when I was 14, and I decided to that I wanted to be a professor when I was, my freshman year as an undergrad. And, like, I guess I'm a pretty goal oriented person. And so I focused on these objectives and got where I wanted to go. But it's strange when you have a goal and you achieve the goal and then what. And I think that, to have, a fulfilling and productive life, one ought to have goals all the time. So if you, you know, I reach one of your big goals, then, you know, I don't think it's it's productive to just sort of sit there and, and, and just sort of toast, you know, it's time to make a new goal. And so in building the Sherman Center and then building Flask Works, it became clear to me that my next goal was to be in the entrepreneurial realm, in biotech, very specifically. And so I actually left Northeastern at the end of 2019 to work on Flask Works full time. At the time, I had no idea that the company was going to be acquired. You know, just a few months later. So it was very much a sort of a foot in the, the unknown, but I had a reasonable degree of confidence and conviction that, you know, this would all work out. And I did, you know, want to have, a big audacious goal to pursue. And so that's what I did. And then after flask was acquired, then it was sort of like, well, okay, what's the next goal? And there again, a sort of a deliberate process where I knew I wanted to work on a startup, but I knew that I didn't want to do it alone. And so my requirements for a startup and it's with, a team where people have complementary expertise. So this is the, the founding team at Nanite, where you have people who know each other. We've worked with each other for a long time, but we bring very different skills. 

Liam [00:23:15] Yeah, that's pretty just a fascinating story of just, like, going in all in on entrepreneurship. One, having the conviction to do that and to having it actually work out. So it's not just, oh, this is a suspicion it's going to work out. It's like, no, I was willing to do what it takes to make sure it was successful in the end. So based off that experience and going all in entrepreneurship, we just want to know what does entrepreneurship mean to you? 

Shashi [00:23:37] I think the first thing that it means is freedom to pursue ideas. And I didn't I didn't sort of fully appreciate how important this was to me, until I was well underway in my career. Now, doing academic research does have an element to this. So it's not that removed from entrepreneurship in the traditional sense. But I think that's the first thing. And then the second thing is, you know, just sort of doing something worthwhile to solve a big problem most of the time, you know, when you're trying to. You know, just follow or work on ideas and doing something worthwhile in the realm of technology. It's very, very difficult. There's lots of problems. Everything costs a lot of money. Most things don't work. So, you know, it's just kind of it's not. It's actually not that much fun for the most part. But I think the when you do solve a problem, when you do make a difference, it's it's a very big deal. And I think that's that's what, you know, the, the inventors, the entrepreneurs really sort of live for and and that's what I, like to, you know, sort of visualize as well. 

Andrew [00:24:55] Inertia, I guess, which once you get into there, you know, that it's not always going to be ups, that there's always going to be some downs. You're always gonna have to learn these failures. You talked about some of your success stories with Flask Works and Nanite, but I guess we're also wondering if you also had any stories you could tell about any failures you had and what you have learned from these? 

Shashi [00:25:15] Yeah, I, I think the, probably the very first thing I would say is, is becoming very cognizant of what I'm good at, what I'm not. And, you know, it takes several different skill sets to form a successful entrepreneurial entity, you know, whether that's a company or something different. Entrepreneurial entities can be of all different kinds. It can be nonprofits. They could be entities like the Sherman Center, for example, within organizations. But they do require different sorts of skill sets, not only in the context of engineering, and technology. There's because obviously, you know, someone's got to build something, and be proficient at the technology involved. But then, you know, you also have to define the problem correctly, identify the correct use cases that matter, and build some awesome piece of technology that isn't useful in any way, and that no one's willing to pay for. So that's another that's the second skill set. And then the third skill set is, is kind of making it all happen. So finding money. Technology, entrepreneurship and product development often requires a lot of money. And so the ability to find money, both from investors as well as other sources, and then find customers. So these are very, very different, areas with different skill sets. I would say that, you know, I personally I'm good at on the, on the technology development side, I'm reasonably good at, talking, to customers and framing problems. However, in terms of finding customers and raising money, though, those are not my strong suits. So this was something I realized, in the course of building companies, and which is why now I've teamed up with some folks, my co-founders, and then I, who are good at those, things that I'm not good at. 

Liam [00:27:17] You mentioned just previously some tips as well, but with your years and years of experience in the field of entrepreneurship, we were wondering if you could give the college students some tips and advice for how they could delve further into the entrepreneurship realm. 

Shashi [00:27:31] Yes. Certainly. So, I think, the number one piece of advice would be to, you know, be don't be afraid, to propose or at least conceive of solutions to problems. And, you know, find ways to advance the solutions somehow and, and really, go through the exercise of evaluating, having a customer or an end user evaluate the solution that that portion of, the process can be extremely valuable. So, I would say that you can develop better products, better technologies, if you're constantly soliciting feedback. You don't necessarily have to be an entrepreneur to do that. You can be entrepreneurial, and continually develop products and technologies that are useful. And, and, you know, think about getting that feedback as a means of building better products, technologies and useful things. 

Andrew [00:28:39] Yeah, I feel that just not being afraid is really great advice just for anything besides entrepreneurship as well. You want to get into some new field, some new hobby. That's the step, as always, just start. Yeah, just just don't be afraid of finding out what like, the best way to do this is. Or being too overwhelmed with anything. You know, just step into that, next step and get started. But, we were also wondering, what's your next steps? You know, what's your future looking like, your next path that you're going to choose? 

Shashi [00:29:09] Yeah. So I, you know, I have fully committed to building Nanite. To this point, I have a great team of co-founders and a great team that we've assembled, as a company on the technical side as well as business side. And, you know, I really enjoy my work there. And, you know, we want to do something that is worthwhile. We want to create technologies that address important needs in, medicine, in the treatment of, of a broad range of diseases, but also creating an approach to design drug delivery systems, based on machine learning that's never been done before. And that's, that's very fulfilling, in terms of what's next for me, I mean, this is this is it like building, this company. This is sort of the big goal currently. I can't tell what lies ahead beyond that. Because I'm completely focused on this activity right now. But, yeah. You know, and I continue to be engaged with Northeastern. I, and a member of the, chemical engineering department's industrial advisory board, being engaged with my former colleagues and building my expertise where I can. And I'm also a co-op employer. I have three co-ops right now, and that's it's a lot of fun. And so, I would say, you know, it's, it's been great, being at Northeastern. And now that that experience is definitely shaping and, contributing to what I'm doing now. 

Liam [00:30:44] Well, it looks like we're about to wrap up with the podcast. It was a pleasure having you on today, but we want to know where can the audience find more about you, Nanite, and anything else that you like to promote? 

Shashi [00:30:54] Yeah. So you can find out more about me on LinkedIn or, I mean, just across the web in general. Nanite, You know, the next time folks are looking for a co-op, please look us up. We are always hiring. Always interested in speaking to Northeastern students. Not only for co-op, but also for full time opportunities as they arise. 

Liam [00:31:17] Well, it was great having you on today. It was just a pleasure having you on to talk about the Sherman Center, Nanite, and all the things that you have going on. So glad to have you on today. 

Shashi [00:31:28] Well Liam and Andrew. Thank you. It's great meeting you guys. And nice job putting this podcast together. 

Andrew [00:31:33] Thank you,. 

Andrew [00:31:34] Thank you. Appreciate it. 

Andrew [00:31:36] That was an inspiring and informative podcast we just had with Doctor Murthy about the history of the Sherman Center and general tips about entrepreneurship. 

Andrew [00:31:44] Exactly. It was great to see a recap of the history of the Sherman Center itself, so we hope that you all enjoyed today's episode. Make sure to like and follow this podcast, and check out the Sherman Center's Instagram at nushermancenter and our newsletter as well. Until then, see you all next time.